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<head><meta charset="utf-8"><title>design meeting 2020.03.17 · wg-traits · Zulip Chat Archive</title></head>
<h2>Stream: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/index.html">wg-traits</a></h2>
<h3>Topic: <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html">design meeting 2020.03.17</a></h3>

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<a name="190902377"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190902377" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190902377">(Mar 17 2020 at 19:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hi <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="692">@WG-traits</span>, meeting in 5ish minutes</p>



<a name="190902402"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190902402" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190902402">(Mar 17 2020 at 19:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hi <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="692">@WG-traits</span> -- design meeting in 5 minutes. If you've not done so already, please add notes and updates into <a href="https://hackmd.io/nrhN5A8sR2eY9UdfJTKcJg?sync=&amp;type=" target="_blank" title="https://hackmd.io/nrhN5A8sR2eY9UdfJTKcJg?sync=&amp;type=">the agenda hackmd</a>.</p>



<a name="190902416"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190902416" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190902416">(Mar 17 2020 at 19:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>Heh, jinx :)</p>



<a name="190902431"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190902431" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190902431">(Mar 17 2020 at 19:54)</a>:</h4>
<p>Literally about to post that too</p>



<a name="190902475"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190902475" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190902475">(Mar 17 2020 at 19:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>(<span class="user-mention" data-user-id="129457">@Florian Diebold</span>, are you around by any chance?)</p>



<a name="190902530"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190902530" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190902530">(Mar 17 2020 at 19:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>Also, question, what are the sprint dates we set for ourselves :)</p>



<a name="190902641"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190902641" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190902641">(Mar 17 2020 at 19:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>this sprint ends on the 24th</p>



<a name="190902643"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190902643" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190902643">(Mar 17 2020 at 19:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think</p>



<a name="190902651"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190902651" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190902651">(Mar 17 2020 at 19:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>so one week</p>



<a name="190902675"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190902675" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190902675">(Mar 17 2020 at 19:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>we should plan for next sprint this meeting</p>



<a name="190903224"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190903224" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190903224">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>btw, I kind of forgot about this, but I think <a href="https://github.com/rust-lang/chalk/pull/342/" target="_blank" title="https://github.com/rust-lang/chalk/pull/342/">https://github.com/rust-lang/chalk/pull/342/</a> is looking pretty good (thanks <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="220273">@Jane Lusby</span>) -- the major "open question" of sorts is the best way to deal with <code>Debug</code> impls</p>



<a name="190903229"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190903229" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190903229">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>Ok <span class="user-group-mention" data-user-group-id="692">@WG-traits</span> meeting time</p>



<a name="190903251"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190903251" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jane Lusby <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190903251">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>yea, I've been holding off on moving forward on those until that got resolved</p>



<a name="190903282"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190903282" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Florian Diebold <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190903282">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm somewhat around, only on the phone though</p>



<a name="190903288"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190903288" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jane Lusby <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190903288">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>i figured that things are gonna move slower with coronavirus and all that</p>



<a name="190903304"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190903304" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jane Lusby <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190903304">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>so i didnt want to push for a review or anything</p>



<a name="190903320"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190903320" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190903320">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>yep, that's been consuming a lot of my time and (even more so) mental head space</p>



<a name="190903434"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190903434" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190903434">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah, I'm distracted by other things today</p>



<a name="190903594"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190903594" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190903594">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyways, annoucements?</p>



<a name="190903653"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190903653" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190903653">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>As usual, I've been working on rustc integration when I can</p>



<a name="190903701"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190903701" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190903701">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>seems like it's been a quiet week, though I'd definitely encourage folks to note announcements in <a href="https://hackmd.io/nrhN5A8sR2eY9UdfJTKcJg?both" target="_blank" title="https://hackmd.io/nrhN5A8sR2eY9UdfJTKcJg?both">the agenda hackmd</a> as they arise</p>



<a name="190903945"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190903945" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190903945">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:06)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span> I left a comment on your wg-traits PR</p>



<a name="190903966"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190903966" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190903966">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah I just saw that</p>



<a name="190903975"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190903975" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190903975">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>I was debating where to respond :)</p>



<a name="190903980"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190903980" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190903980">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>I guess here is ok :)</p>



<a name="190904070"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190904070" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190904070">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes</p>



<a name="190904085"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190904085" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190904085">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>to start, the <code>TyData::Fn</code> should really be called "function pointer", perhaps</p>



<a name="190904114"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190904114" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190904114">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>and what i'm referring to is something distinct</p>



<a name="190904148"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190904148" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190904148">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>but let me back up and give a bit more context</p>



<a name="190904231"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190904231" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190904231">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>one of the things we've discussed on and off is that rustc has various bits of support for special traits "buitl in" (i.e., there are no impls written out in source code)</p>



<a name="190904307"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190904307" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190904307">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:08)</a>:</h4>
<p><code>Sized</code> is a key example, but we also generate impls of <code>Clone</code> for closure types etc</p>



<a name="190904322"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190904322" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190904322">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>in any case I realized that one I had been overlooking is that we generate impls of the <code>Fn</code> traits in some cases also</p>



<a name="190904330"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190904330" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190904330">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>there are three cases where we do that:</p>



<a name="190904349"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190904349" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190904349">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:08)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>function pointer types like <code>fn()</code></li>
</ul>



<a name="190904385"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190904385" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190904385">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:08)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li>closure types -- the special, unique type that arises from a closure like <code>|x| ...</code></li>
</ul>



<a name="190904452"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190904452" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190904452">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:09)</a>:</h4>
<ul>
<li><em>function definition</em> types -- the special, unique type that arises for a named function like <code>fn foo() { }</code></li>
</ul>



<a name="190904481"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190904481" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190904481">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:09)</a>:</h4>
<p>the last one is a subtle point that people may not be aware of</p>



<a name="190904614"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190904614" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190904614">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>if you have </p>
<div class="codehilite"><pre><span></span><span class="k">fn</span> <span class="nf">foo</span><span class="p">()</span><span class="w"> </span><span class="p">{</span><span class="w"> </span><span class="p">}</span><span class="w"></span>
</pre></div>


<p>and <code>let x = foo</code>, the type of <code>x</code> is <em>not</em> <code>fn()</code>. It's rather a unique, zero-sized type that identifies <code>foo</code> precisely. This zero-sized type can be <em>coerced</em> to the function pointer type <code>fn()</code> (which has a size equal to <code>usize</code>).</p>



<a name="190904679"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190904679" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190904679">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:10)</a>:</h4>
<p>(This means, among other things, that when you do <code>foo()</code>, we see a call to something with that special type, which means that just <em>from the type</em> we know statically the function being called, and has some other advantages.)</p>



<a name="190904708"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190904708" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190904708">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>why is there a special zero-sized type for that?</p>



<a name="190904735"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190904735" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190904735">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:11)</a>:</h4>
<p>Anyway, these function types (and closure types) are just "apply" types from the chalk-data break-down, but they will need some special treatment in that we have to generate <code>Fn</code> impls for them, and it's relevant to the whole debruijn index thing because the signatures of them etc can be tricky</p>



<a name="190904974"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190904974" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190904974">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:13)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="125131">detrumi</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17/near/190904708" title="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17/near/190904708">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>why is there a special zero-sized type for that?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>it represents the case of "known callee" in the type system, as I said, which means that when you have e.g. wrapper types like </p>
<div class="codehilite"><pre><span></span><span class="k">struct</span> <span class="nc">Wrapper</span><span class="o">&lt;</span><span class="n">T</span>: <span class="nb">Fn</span><span class="p">()</span><span class="o">&gt;</span><span class="w"> </span><span class="p">{</span><span class="w"></span>
<span class="w">    </span><span class="n">callee</span>: <span class="nc">T</span><span class="w"></span>
<span class="p">}</span><span class="w"></span>
</pre></div>


<p>and you can create <code>Wrapper { callee: foo }</code>, you get back a <code>Wrapper&lt;F&gt;</code> where <code>F</code> is that unique type, so that calls to <code>callee</code> are also resolved statically without needing e.g. pointer analysis</p>



<a name="190905134"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190905134" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190905134">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway, should we discuss "next sprint"? I'd be curious also to just do a mini-retro on our sprint experience</p>



<a name="190905183"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190905183" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190905183">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think sprint has been mostly positive</p>



<a name="190905184"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190905184" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190905184">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:15)</a>:</h4>
<p>actually I guess sprints are supposed to have retros where we look back on what we did or something too :) I've never really tried agile "for real" so...</p>



<a name="190905285"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190905285" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190905285">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>It'll definitely be nice to have a better sense of things to do</p>



<a name="190905290"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190905290" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190905290">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>but actually hasn't been bad</p>



<a name="190905305"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190905305" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190905305">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:16)</a>:</h4>
<p>one thing I would add is that I was talking to <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116266">@Santiago Pastorino</span> about the learning WG and their own effort sto get on a sprint system. Overall I think the idea of sprints could be really great as a system that all compiler wgs try to adopt, but we were thinking maybe (if it's useful) we might align our timing and try to support one another</p>



<a name="190905395"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190905395" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190905395">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:17)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah, I think it's overall felt good. I still feel a bit overwhelmed by the number of choices so having a bit of "we decided to do X and Y and we're going to stick to that" has definitely been helpful. I'd like it if we can decide a bit more firmly (or maybe <em>I</em> can decide for myself =) the next time.</p>



<a name="190905474"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190905474" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190905474">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>"getting organized" has been a moving goalpost</p>



<a name="190905505"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190905505" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190905505">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:18)</a>:</h4>
<p>But we definitely improved there</p>



<a name="190905603"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190905603" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190905603">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>it doesn't really feel like the current work is finished, though I guess the focus will shift for next sprint</p>



<a name="190905618"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190905618" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190905618">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:19)</a>:</h4>
<p>well, it might be "keep on keepin' on"</p>



<a name="190905719"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190905719" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190905719">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>that doesn't really help with steering though</p>



<a name="190905729"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190905729" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190905729">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:20)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think a big part is as this sprint has gone on, we've found more things to do</p>



<a name="190905840"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190905840" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190905840">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>So setting goals for next sprint should help with deciding what to focus on</p>



<a name="190905899"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190905899" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190905899">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think the list of ongoing things right now are</p>
<ul>
<li>modeling impl Trait</li>
<li>making the <code>Interner</code> a value  that gets passed around (probably.. 75% done)</li>
<li>exploring the recursive solver (yay <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="129457">@Florian Diebold</span>)</li>
<li>exploring rustc integration (the most nebuluous, but we've definitely made progress) </li>
<li>tracing (added:)</li>
</ul>
<p>I'd include the work on debruin indices in that next to last bullet.</p>



<a name="190905920"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190905920" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190905920">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>Plus tracing :)</p>



<a name="190905927"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190905927" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190905927">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:22)</a>:</h4>
<p>eep! good point</p>



<a name="190906008"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190906008" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190906008">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>We've made progress with a lot</p>



<a name="190906017"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190906017" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190906017">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>it seems clear that "add <code>&amp;self</code> to data methods" should be a sprint goal</p>



<a name="190906033"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190906033" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190906033">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>that seems like it's "mostly done"</p>



<a name="190906046"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190906046" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190906046">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:23)</a>:</h4>
<p>I want to (at some point) try to implement the congruence edges we were talking about <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116009">@nikomatsakis</span></p>



<a name="190906123"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190906123" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190906123">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes, I think the Interner changes are close to <em>done</em></p>



<a name="190906152"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190906152" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190906152">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:24)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="232957">@Jack Huey</span> in terms of rutsc integration, do you think it would make sense to look at builtin-traits work?</p>



<a name="190906166"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190906166" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190906166">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>that would also benefit rust-analyzer I think</p>



<a name="190906172"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190906172" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190906172">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes</p>



<a name="190906174"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190906174" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190906174">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>and it's fairly clearly defined</p>



<a name="190906182"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190906182" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190906182">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:24)</a>:</h4>
<p>I suspect <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="220273">@Jane Lusby</span> might be into that :)</p>



<a name="190906200"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190906200" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190906200">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think that should be a big goal of the next sprint</p>



<a name="190906251"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190906251" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jane Lusby <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190906251">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:25)</a>:</h4>
<p>is that on the skill tree?</p>



<a name="190906318"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190906318" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190906318">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think so</p>



<a name="190906330"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190906330" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190906330">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>Hmm, feels like we're not getting close to rustc integration the coming sprint then</p>



<a name="190906371"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190906371" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190906371">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:26)</a>:</h4>
<p>That's a <em>it depends</em></p>



<a name="190906398"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190906398" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190906398">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>right now, for <code>Sized</code>, I've hacked around</p>



<a name="190906410"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190906410" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190906410">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>which isn't good</p>



<a name="190906431"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190906431" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190906431">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:27)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="220273">Jane Lusby</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17/near/190906251" title="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17/near/190906251">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>is that on the skill tree?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yeah</p>



<a name="190906437"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190906437" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190906437">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>but it does at least mean we can push forward</p>



<a name="190906460"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190906460" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190906460">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>"Extend chalk-solve with knowledge of builtin-traits"</p>



<a name="190906478"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190906478" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> David Barsky <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190906478">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:27)</a>:</h4>
<p>re: I worked on the <code>tracing</code> stuff, but I'm worried that I'm just adding too much noise to output. might need a bit of assistance in determining what's valuable and what isn't.</p>



<a name="190906575"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190906575" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190906575">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>so, right now <code>debug</code> is very heavy on the output</p>



<a name="190906578"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190906578" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190906578">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:28)</a>:</h4>
<p>One thing I still wonder a bit about is how much to work on extracting a shared library for types between chalk/rustc vs letting the two representations be different and bridging them for now at the integration point. I guess this is a bit of a false choice, though.</p>



<a name="190906622"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190906622" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190906622">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>and I would definitely lean on the side of more is better in most cases</p>



<a name="190906639"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190906639" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190906639">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>In particular, the way I sketched out the plan was that we would have both rustc/chalk types as distinct types until kind of the very last step, even as they got more similar to one another</p>



<a name="190906672"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190906672" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190906672">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>In any case, I can definitely create some concrete steps on the rustc side in that direction</p>



<a name="190906698"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190906698" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190906698">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>(maybe we sohuld be accumulating a kind of list in the hackmd notes? I'll go try to do that)</p>



<a name="190906700"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190906700" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190906700">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:29)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think that making the same is a lower priority than getting it to work with a bridge</p>



<a name="190906901"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190906901" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190906901">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>Would the 'bridging code' live in the shared library?</p>



<a name="190906931"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190906931" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190906931">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>Because that would make the differences visible</p>



<a name="190906963"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190906963" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190906963">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:31)</a>:</h4>
<p>it would lie in the chalk integration code for rustc</p>



<a name="190907027"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190907027" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190907027">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm wondering whether it would be worth it to hack together a bare-bones version early</p>



<a name="190907040"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190907040" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190907040">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:32)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="232957">@Jack Huey</span> your code towards integration is all still living in that branch, right?</p>



<a name="190907073"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190907073" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190907073">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:32)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes</p>



<a name="190907097"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190907097" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190907097">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:33)</a>:</h4>
<p>I have a couple local changes but I push regularly</p>



<a name="190907278"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190907278" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190907278">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>OK. So I feel like we can bridge the types as they parameter/binder exist today without really any refactoring, though I know you were hitting some walls -- I can budget out some time tomorrow to pull the branch and maybe try to take a deeper look</p>



<a name="190907282"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190907282" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190907282">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>or maybe this evening even</p>



<a name="190907299"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190907299" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190907299">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>I sort of agree that standing up <em>some</em> kind of integration would be great</p>



<a name="190907327"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190907327" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190907327">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:35)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm trying to think about the complete blockers</p>



<a name="190907391"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190907391" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190907391">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think I still have to figure out the <code>Param</code> stuff, but I don't think that's <em>blocking</em></p>



<a name="190907409"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190907409" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190907409">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:36)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="125131">@detrumi</span> in terms of impl trait, do you feel there is something more concrete to say about next steps etc for next sprint?</p>



<a name="190907418"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190907418" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190907418">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:36)</a>:</h4>
<p>The builtin traits are blocking</p>



<a name="190907495"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190907495" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190907495">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:37)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'd like to get it in a usable state so rust-analyzer can make use of it, but I'm not sure whether that requires more design work</p>



<a name="190907674"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190907674" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190907674">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think a realistic goal for this sprint would be</p>



<a name="190907703"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190907703" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190907703">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>that so long as other code is handling the "inference" side of things</p>



<a name="190907716"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190907716" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190907716">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>we can model the existence of opaque types</p>



<a name="190907744"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190907744" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190907744">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:39)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think the code as is is "almost" there, we jsut need to sync up a bit on the binders and refactor it a bit to be more lazy</p>



<a name="190907858"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190907858" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190907858">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:40)</a>:</h4>
<p>Right. And type aliases are a small addition on top of that then, I assume?</p>



<a name="190907894"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190907894" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190907894">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>Ah, interesting, they seem like an orthogonal thing, but probably not a hard thing to model</p>



<a name="190907910"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190907910" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190907910">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>Not directly related to impl Trait, but it's one of the alias types</p>



<a name="190907930"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190907930" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190907930">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>But yeah, I was hoping it to be orthogonal</p>



<a name="190907937"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190907937" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jane Lusby <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190907937">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:41)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232957">Jack Huey</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17/near/190907418" title="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17/near/190907418">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>The builtin traits are blocking</p>
</blockquote>
<p>the builtin stuff that niko was suggesting I work on?</p>



<a name="190907946"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190907946" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190907946">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:41)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes</p>



<a name="190908026"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908026" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908026">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>in terms of taking the next step to more fully modeling opaque types, another possible good "next step" would be writing up how <em>rustc</em> handles opaque types for the <a href="https://rustc-dev-guide.rust-lang.org/" target="_blank" title="https://rustc-dev-guide.rust-lang.org/">https://rustc-dev-guide.rust-lang.org/</a> =) not sure if that's a delegatable task for this WG, but I think it'd be useful in figuring out how things should work. That said, I'm not sure that this inference should live in chalk at all -- it feels like it occurs (to me) more at the "type checker" level of things.</p>



<a name="190908037"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908037" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908037">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>so maybe it's just kind of out of scope for now for us</p>



<a name="190908041"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908041" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jane Lusby <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908041">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>is it blocking work rn, aka should I prioritize it over the last 25% of the interner changes?</p>



<a name="190908065"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908065" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908065">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:42)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think eventually we want Chalk to completely deal with them</p>



<a name="190908073"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908073" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908073">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:42)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="125131">detrumi</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17/near/190907930" title="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17/near/190907930">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>But yeah, I was hoping it to be orthogonal</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yeah we could add that as a goal too, that plus landing impl trait is prob realistic for 6 weeks</p>



<a name="190908107"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908107" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908107">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:43)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232957">Jack Huey</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17/near/190908065" title="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17/near/190908065">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I think eventually we want Chalk to completely deal with them</p>
</blockquote>
<p>it depends on what one calls "chalk"</p>



<a name="190908120"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908120" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908120">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>er wait <span class="user-mention" data-user-id="232957">@Jack Huey</span> what did you mean by "them"</p>



<a name="190908148"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908148" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908148">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>but in the interim, it would halfway decent just to have a callback for chalk-solve to ask "does this type impl this builtin trait"</p>



<a name="190908180"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908180" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908180">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:43)</a>:</h4>
<p>Sized, Copy, Clone</p>



<a name="190908185"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908185" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908185">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:43)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="220273">Jane Lusby</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17/near/190908041" title="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17/near/190908041">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>is it blocking work rn, aka should I prioritize it over the last 25% of the interner changes?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I think it's pretty blocking, yes, but let's finish off the interner work I think first</p>



<a name="190908252"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908252" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908252">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>in particular that kind of work reauires pervasive changes</p>



<a name="190908254"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908254" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908254">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>like, we want chalk-solve to check that all but the last field of a struct is Sized</p>



<a name="190908263"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908263" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908263">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it'd be better to land it asap and then do other stuff on top of it :)</p>



<a name="190908273"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908273" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908273">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:44)</a>:</h4>
<p>and it's so close</p>



<a name="190908290"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908290" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908290">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:44)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17/near/190908263" title="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17/near/190908263">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>I think it'd be better to land it asap and then do other stuff on top of it :)</p>
</blockquote>
<p>agreed</p>



<a name="190908333"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908333" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908333">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think we can land the PRs as they are and figure out the <code>Debug</code> impl interface -- I mean i think what you have is probably right, the only problemI foresee is wanting to dump <code>Debug</code> impls without something in scope, and the bottom line is that we just can't do much in that case</p>



<a name="190908394"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908394" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jane Lusby <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908394">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>okay, ill continue with the changes then, we have 1 test thats failing becuase it doesn't setup the program in the TLS</p>



<a name="190908405"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908405" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908405">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>(we could add some secondary callback to <code>Interner</code> that works for those interners that don't require TLS as a fallback, but that seems like .. idk, it'll just let us be sloppier... but it might be convenient sometimes I guess)</p>



<a name="190908421"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908421" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jane Lusby <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908421">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>but I think if we resolve that we can merge it with the <code>unimplemented!</code> fallbacks for when the TLS isnt setup</p>



<a name="190908428"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908428" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jane Lusby <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908428">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:45)</a>:</h4>
<p>and thats probably sufficient</p>



<a name="190908483"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908483" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jane Lusby <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908483">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>we can change that to a panic that explains that it cant be formatted without the TLS setup for the program</p>



<a name="190908488"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908488" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908488">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:46)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="220273">Jane Lusby</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17/near/190908394" title="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17/near/190908394">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>okay, ill continue with the changes then, we have 1 test thats failing becuase it doesn't setup the program in the TLS</p>
</blockquote>
<p>yeah exactly that's the kind of thing where maybe it's convenient to let <code>ChalkIr</code> at least be sloppy -- but in general it'd be better still if we can get the program in the TLS</p>



<a name="190908562"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908562" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jane Lusby <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908562">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:46)</a>:</h4>
<p>I might be able to bang out the rest of the interner change today if we're not particularly worried about the holes that already exist</p>



<a name="190908589"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908589" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jane Lusby <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908589">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>assuming I dont run into any unexpected issues that I've not already dealt with from earlier changes</p>



<a name="190908628"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908628" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jane Lusby <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908628">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>its been getting much easier to add &amp;self to new fns now that the interner is available all over the place</p>



<a name="190908651"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908651" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908651">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:47)</a>:</h4>
<p>yep, I think you did the most painful work</p>



<a name="190908803"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908803" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908803">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:48)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="232957">@Jack Huey</span> should I add "explore equivalence edges" to the hackmd?</p>



<a name="190908811"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908811" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908811">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:48)</a>:</h4>
<p>I have "explore recursive solver"</p>



<a name="190908814"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908814" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908814">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes</p>



<a name="190908840"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908840" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908840">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>I do think it's a super interesting idea to explore</p>



<a name="190908873"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908873" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908873">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>Me to, although the more I think about it the more I'm also tempted by the advantages of the recursive solver, but good to explore both</p>



<a name="190908875"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908875" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908875">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:49)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'll push my local rustc integration changes soon <em>TM</em> so you can take a look</p>



<a name="190908956"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908956" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908956">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>what was the reasoning to move away from the recursive solver in the first place?</p>



<a name="190908960"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190908960" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190908960">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:50)</a>:</h4>
<p>looking at the <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/wg-traits/roadmap/skill-tree.html" target="_blank" title="https://rust-lang.github.io/wg-traits/roadmap/skill-tree.html">skill tree</a>, we've made great progress on the "map chalk types to rustc types"</p>



<a name="190909029"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190909029" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190909029">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:50)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="232957">Jack Huey</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17/near/190908956" title="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17/near/190908956">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>what was the reasoning to move away from the recursive solver in the first place?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>two main things:</p>
<ul>
<li>it couldn't deal with the way we were modeling associated types :)</li>
<li>it is not as "complete" -- i.e., it fails to find solutions sometimes when they exist</li>
</ul>



<a name="190909065"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190909065" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190909065">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:51)</a>:</h4>
<p>of course, the SLG solver does too in some kinds of cases (e.g., floundering)</p>



<a name="190909207"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190909207" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190909207">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm curious what the solutions are?</p>



<a name="190909230"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190909230" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190909230">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>And how much of the Floundering we do is artificially limited</p>



<a name="190909242"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190909242" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190909242">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>do you mean what's an example where it's less complete?</p>



<a name="190909258"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190909258" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190909258">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:52)</a>:</h4>
<p>(Also, the floundering case apply equally to the recursive solver)</p>



<a name="190909287"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190909287" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190909287">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:53)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116009">nikomatsakis</span> <a href="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17/near/190905305" title="#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17/near/190905305">said</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>one thing I would add is that I was talking to <span class="user-mention silent" data-user-id="116266">Santiago Pastorino</span> about the learning WG and their own effort sto get on a sprint system. Overall I think the idea of sprints could be really great as a system that all compiler wgs try to adopt, but we were thinking maybe (if it's useful) we might align our timing and try to support one another</p>
</blockquote>
<p><span aria-label="+1" class="emoji emoji-1f44d" role="img" title="+1">:+1:</span></p>



<a name="190909351"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190909351" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190909351">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:53)</a>:</h4>
<p><span class="user-mention" data-user-id="116266">@Santiago Pastorino</span> so we are sort of planning a next step of goals for our next spring, prob starting in 7 days, not sure what your schedule in <a class="stream" data-stream-id="196385" href="/#narrow/stream/196385-t-compiler.2Fwg-learning">#t-compiler/wg-learning</a> is looking like</p>



<a name="190909510"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190909510" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190909510">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes, an example where it's less complete</p>



<a name="190909562"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190909562" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Santiago Pastorino <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190909562">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:55)</a>:</h4>
<p>we have sprints of 2 months, at the beginning we plan and set our goals and then every to weeks we have meetings where we talk about our progress and how to keep going towards the defined goals</p>



<a name="190909701"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190909701" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190909701">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:56)</a>:</h4>
<p>I gave one in my write-up -- it'd be something where you have two intersecting requirements that share one unique solution, but which are individually ambiguous</p>
<div class="codehilite"><pre><span></span><span class="k">impl</span><span class="o">&lt;</span><span class="n">T</span><span class="o">&gt;</span><span class="w"> </span><span class="n">TraitA</span><span class="w"> </span><span class="k">for</span><span class="w"> </span><span class="n">T</span><span class="w"> </span><span class="k">where</span><span class="w"> </span><span class="n">T</span>: <span class="nc">TraitB</span><span class="p">,</span><span class="w"> </span><span class="n">TraitC</span><span class="w"> </span><span class="p">{</span><span class="w"> </span><span class="p">}</span><span class="w"></span>

<span class="k">impl</span><span class="w"> </span><span class="n">TraitB</span><span class="w"> </span><span class="k">for</span><span class="w"> </span><span class="kt">i32</span><span class="w"> </span><span class="p">{</span><span class="w"> </span><span class="p">}</span><span class="w"></span>
<span class="k">impl</span><span class="w"> </span><span class="n">TraitB</span><span class="w"> </span><span class="k">for</span><span class="w"> </span><span class="kt">u32</span><span class="w"> </span><span class="p">{</span><span class="w"> </span><span class="p">}</span><span class="w"></span>

<span class="k">impl</span><span class="w"> </span><span class="n">TraitC</span><span class="w"> </span><span class="k">for</span><span class="w"> </span><span class="kt">f32</span><span class="w"> </span><span class="p">{</span><span class="w"> </span><span class="p">}</span><span class="w"></span>
<span class="k">impl</span><span class="w"> </span><span class="n">TraitC</span><span class="w"> </span><span class="k">for</span><span class="w"> </span><span class="kt">u32</span><span class="w"> </span><span class="p">{</span><span class="w"> </span><span class="p">}</span><span class="w"></span>
</pre></div>


<p>here, <code>?T: TraitA</code> has only one solution (<code>u32</code>) and the SLG solver will find it. The recursive solver (and rustc's solver) will not.</p>



<a name="190909866"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190909866" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190909866">(Mar 17 2020 at 20:58)</a>:</h4>
<p>oh</p>



<a name="190910137"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910137" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910137">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway, "time's up" I guess ..</p>



<a name="190910159"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910159" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910159">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>but it seems like we got a pretty good start at 'sprint goals'</p>



<a name="190910163"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910163" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910163">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>so one question I am wondering:</p>



<a name="190910170"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910170" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910170">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes</p>



<a name="190910189"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910189" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910189">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:00)</a>:</h4>
<p>we should probably keep updating over the next week next sprint goals</p>



<a name="190910195"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910195" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910195">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>I think it'd be nice to do a blog post  or something, as much as a kind of status update as anything</p>



<a name="190910203"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910203" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910203">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>yeah I think we're not quite ther yet</p>



<a name="190910227"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910227" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910227">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'd like to maybe rename the "Map chalk types to rustc types" goal on skill-tree and create write-ups for remaining items, for example :)</p>



<a name="190910256"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910256" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910256">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>I'm wondering if we want to try and do anything to get a bit of "fresh blood" in for next sprint, or if we're happy with things as they are</p>



<a name="190910273"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910273" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910273">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:01)</a>:</h4>
<p>there were also a few folks who said they might return, I forget who</p>



<a name="190910323"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910323" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910323">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes, a blog post would be nice</p>



<a name="190910346"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910346" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910346">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>maybe end the sprint the 24th</p>



<a name="190910352"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910352" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910352">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would say I like don't think we want a huge influx necessarily as  we probably couldn't usefully mentor and keep up, but I still think it'd be good to write a blog post as a status update, and if we have a couple of items that are "free to pick-up" we can advertise them</p>



<a name="190910359"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910359" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jane Lusby <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910359">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>sunjay someday</p>



<a name="190910362"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910362" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910362">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>take a week to recap and right a blog post</p>



<a name="190910369"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910369" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jane Lusby <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910369">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>once he has a jobo</p>



<a name="190910373"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910373" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910373">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:02)</a>:</h4>
<p>next sprint the week after?</p>



<a name="190910417"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910417" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910417">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:03)</a>:</h4>
<p>seems good.</p>



<a name="190910534"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910534" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910534">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>So you mean end the sprint on the 24th, and start the next one on the 31st, right?</p>



<a name="190910564"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910564" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jane Lusby <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910564">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>we could try using the call for pariticpation section of TWiR to bring people in</p>



<a name="190910604"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910604" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jane Lusby <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910604">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>find an issue you think would be good for a new person and post it and see if anyone picks it up</p>



<a name="190910626"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910626" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jane Lusby <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910626">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>repeat whenever you feel you have bandwith to mentor a new person</p>



<a name="190910641"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910641" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910641">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:04)</a>:</h4>
<p>yes</p>



<a name="190910706"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910706" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910706">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>will have to come up with more chalk mentoring issues lol</p>



<a name="190910712"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910712" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910712">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>kind of did a couple</p>



<a name="190910722"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910722" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jack Huey <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910722">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>of the easy ones</p>



<a name="190910762"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910762" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jane Lusby <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910762">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:05)</a>:</h4>
<p>lol</p>



<a name="190910813"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910813" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910813">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>Yeah, but I also think we're hitting a good stride here, and I feel like we shouldn't over-rotate on bringin new folks necessarily</p>



<a name="190910834"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910834" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jane Lusby <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910834">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>and I'm still in the "being mentored on how chalk works" stage so...</p>



<a name="190910849"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910849" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> detrumi <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910849">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>let's just start with a blog post for now</p>



<a name="190910864"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910864" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910864">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>Like i'd rather we have 1 or 2 people that we can "support reasonably well"</p>



<a name="190910907"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910907" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jane Lusby <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910907">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:06)</a>:</h4>
<p>I would also like to be supported reasonably well</p>



<a name="190910921"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910921" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> Jane Lusby <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910921">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>lol</p>



<a name="190910989"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190910989" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190910989">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:07)</a>:</h4>
<p>anyway not to prevent us from doing things :) I also like new folks. Just saying I think it's ok if we keep going as we are, we're making great progress. Blog post seems good =)</p>



<a name="190911054"></a>
<h4><a href="https://rust-lang.zulipchat.com#narrow/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design%20meeting%202020.03.17/near/190911054" class="zl"><img src="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/assets/img/zulip.svg" alt="view this post on Zulip" style="width:20px;height:20px;"></a> nikomatsakis <a href="https://rust-lang.github.io/zulip_archive/stream/144729-wg-traits/topic/design.20meeting.202020.2E03.2E17.html#190911054">(Mar 17 2020 at 21:08)</a>:</h4>
<p>/me trying to avoid over-reach these days</p>



<hr><p>Last updated: Aug 07 2021 at 22:04 UTC</p>
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